Academics

• Jasper Rine, Professor at UC Berkeley.

Dear Lenny,

I think the analysis that you have done on the situation is pretty much identical to what I would offer someone in that position.  Not knowing the intended major I would have a hard time offering comparative advice regarding the two options, and even knowing the major, that would be only a small part of the consideration.   I agree that at the undergraduate level, job prospects are pretty much as secondary if not tertiary consideration, with the rare exception, such as if you want to be in the entertainment business, USC is better than UCLA because their alumni are in professions with few measures of merit and tend to be tribal.

The single graduate student that I took the most pride in recruiting to Berkeley when I was on the admissions committee was a student from Wichita State named Owen Fields.   I knew nothing about Wichita State's program at all, but I could see that he took a hard course curriculum, and his statement of interest was so compelling that it transcended all others.  Indeed he turned out to be a star.

Going back to BU versus UMass Amherst, BU is in the shadow of much better known places, whereas U Mass has its own identity and at least in the biological sciences is becoming a real powerhouse.  I would also presume it to be substantially less expensive for resident than BU, and I find it hard to justify the price of private schools, unless there is some super-compelling reason.   My experience with a step-daughter's choice to go to NYU is that it had the high cost of private schools, but a much worse educational experience than the SUNY schools.  It was really a way to have an apartment in NYC masquerading as an educational experience.

                             

• Fred Winston, Professor at Harvard Medical School

I agree with everything you wrote, including the important questions at the bottom of your message.

As a professor, I can say that we have had excellent grad students who did their undergrad work at both places, but that's a pretty small sample size.  One of my star grad students was a UMass undergrad and she is now a PI in Seattle.   I don't think the undergrad institution is generally a strong predictor of future success as a grad student or independent investigator in biology.

As a parent, we tried to let our daughter make her own decision without too much influence from us (although she somehow managed to figure out our preferences).   UMass and BU are very different environments as you point out.  That plus the particular academic interests should probably be the most important factors.  I agree that relative ranking probably doesn't matter.
                             

• Victoria Chernyak, Professor at Dept. of Radiology, Albert Einstein College of Medicine

I completely agree pretty much with everything you have said. I can only add one thing. If the girl is interested in going for Med School, she should try to get to the school with the higher rating. I feel like college ratings are pretty important when it comes to med school decisions.
 

                             

• Ting Wu, Professor at Harvard Medical School

This IS such a complicated problem, and I think you are wonderful to have taken the time to consider the issue so carefully for others. In addition to the sage advice from Jasper Rine and Joseph Duncan, I would add that a single thoughtful letter of reference coming from someone who knows the candidate well and can offer true insights (not just the usual words of praise) can make all the difference.  So, it is not just 'where you are' but also 'who you are'. What is most important is the person, what s/he thinks, has done, and wants to do and the motivation behind the energy. For example, I would rank a candidate without a single diploma (preschool, middle school, high school, college, or graduate school) who has demonstrated drive, know-how, creativity, willingness to take risks, stellar morality, and citizenship far, far above a straight-A student with diplomas from the most prestigious educational institutions who, in spite of all that schooling (or perhaps because of it) has not yet untangled self-worth and purpose from institutional judgement. 

Am looking forward to what others say!  
                             

• Kristen DeAngelis, Professor at UMass Amherst

How is she doing here now, and what is her major?  If she is MCB, this is a great major and the consensus among the faculty is that these are the best students.  We have some great honors programs, and the students I've met who are in honors are some of the smartest and most mature I've ever met.  If she were inclined to get into a great lab, and get a good letter or two, maybe a thesis, maybe a coauthor on a paper, she'll be miles ahead of her peers at any institution.  

In many ways this is a great school, and probably comparable to BU.  As for networking, there are twice as many postgraduates at BU compared to UMass, so this would theoretically help in the networking department in terms of connecting with other alums who are in successful careers.  One big reason students love UMass is the price: for a great education you pay a fraction of the price of a private school like BU.  Debt burden is huge and ignored, and can really hamper a "successful"-feeling life even a couple years down the road, in terms of not being able to take a vacation, or buy a car.  

I feel like there are two aspects to this issue of whether one or the other will give your niece better job prospects.  One is abstract and difficult to quantify: the name recognition.  I expect that this would be quite subjective on the part of whoever is reading the application.  As an employer, I also look for honors distinctions, thesis, and other awards and accolades like publications.  This says more to me than reputation of the school.  The second is actual assistance in finding a job.  I'm sure both schools have career services, but maybe one is better than the other.  Things to look for would be number of full-time counselors, availability of services after graduation, assistance with resume and the too-often underestimated cover letter, prep for interviewing including mock interviews.  Even then, the quality of the career counseling depends on the field.  Harvard did nothing to help me find a job in biology, but I'd have been all set if I'd chosen banking instead.  It didn't matter; I learned a lot in looking and made a lot of contacts for myself without the help of the career center.

I know there are a lot of transfers both in and out.  She should talk to her advisor here, and if she doesn't have one yet, she should get one.  

At the end of the day, I still believe that getting a good education is paramount.  It may be true that reputation of the school will nudge an application in one direction or the other, but she will succeed based on how much she learns.  If she is doing well at UMass, and is happy here, I'd suggest she stay.  If she is frustrated or unhappy here, she will not learn well and should probably move.  

                             

• Angela DePace, Professor at Harvard Medical School

I think you're right on the money with your response.  Frankly, most people assessing her will never have seen the rankings and will see UMass Amherst and BU in very similar bins - good schools, not the best.  If she's a good student, that's fine.  If she's a mediocre student, it will keep her out of top notch grad programs.

I would say the single most important thing that you can do as an undergraduate is identify a faculty mentor - one person who cares what happens to you, gets to know you well, and will be your advocate.  Much more important than rankings.